The .351 WSL did grab a bit of fame, first as a popular rifle for prison guards and then as one of the rifles used to punch a lot of holes in Bonnie and Clydes automobile (although that accolade is in question). The .30/30 Win. Boxes of 20 can be found in the $25 range while the .35 Rem. from a 20" barrel. The quest for an acceptable .35 has inspired such impotent wastes as the .35 Winchester Self Loader, once labeled a candidate for the title: Worlds Most Useless Center-Fire Rifle Cartridge.. At this time, Henry and Marlin are the only two companies Im aware of that produce new rifles in the cartridge. 1907 Autoloading Rifle. But bringing down game isnt just about heavy, fast-flying bullets. Commonly known as the Model 07, the Model 1907 rifle was also popular for law enforcement use. My first was a Winchester Model 94AE XTR in .30-30 Winchester, that timeless rimmed cartridge that has accounted for innumerable amounts of game. from my E.R. Many now consider the .35SL inadequate as a deer round, but it may still be suitable . vs. .300 WSM.223 Remington vs. .22-250 Remington. vs. .458 Lott7mm Rem. For more than two centuries, Westley Richards has produced some of the worlds finest firearms, each wearing a timeless and classic look with bespoke flourishes. The .30-30 has an even clearer edge when it comes to availability of firearms. The .35 Rem., by contrast, can be much more difficult to find. Like most of our Caliber Battles, the choice here is between a lighter bullet going faster (the .30-30) and a heavier bullet going slower (the .35 Rem.). hit the market in 1895 paired with Winchesters now-legendary 1894 lever-action. If he doesnt, his old man did, and he still has strong opinions about which cartridge performs better in the field. and a 250-grain Partition load with a muzzle velocity of 2550 f.p.s. Make sure you follow The Big Game Hunting Blog onFacebook,Instagram,Twitter, andYouTube. Originally loaded with a 160-grain bullet, today 150- and 170-grain loads are the most popular, but ammunition loaded with bullets as light as 125 grains and as heavy as 190 grains is available. Note: A longer version of this article can be found on the Rifle Cartridge Page. The .35 Win., .35 Newton and .350 Griffin & Howe Mag. was introduced in 1955. The .35 Remingtons story is a bit different. We offer rifle ammo in a number of calibers including 223 REMINGTON, 30 CARBINE, 300 WIN MAG, 307 WIN, 308 WIN, 375 WINCHESTER, 5.45 X 39MM, 7X64MM and more. I still see them each deer season in upstate New York, in the Catskills and Adirondacks, as well as in the Hudson Valley; like the .30-30 Winchester, the .35 Remington is cheap to shoot and still makes venison as well as it did a century ago. Mag. Today, the ammunition for both cartridges is much improved from what it was in the 50s and Hornadys LEVERevoultion ammunition extended the practical effective range for both cartridges. Nosler offers the .350 Rem. grain jacketed soft point (JSP), round nose bullets. At 300 yards, it has 19 percent more energy than the .300 Win. Those same characteristics that made the .35 Remington such an effective choice on really large animals during the 20th Century still ring true today. The .358 Win. Smith & Wesson's new M&P FPC is a compact, folding pistol-caliber carbine chambered in 9 mm Luger and designed to accept the company's M&P handgun magazines. This means I will earn a small commission (at no extra cost to you) if you make a purchase. The new 350 Legend has the benefit of modern engineering, and the fact that it wasnt designed specifically for a tubular magazine. The .30/30s dominance as the king of lever-cartridges is also clear when you look at available ammunition. In addition to the semi-auto Remington Model 8 and 81, Remington also produced the Model 14 pump-action rifle chambered in the cartridge. It is capable of driving a. Winchester introduced the .351 WSL in 1907 for their Model The old timers that designed big cartridges like the 35 Remington knew what it took to kill big game like elk and moose not to mention deer in brush along river banks. All provide an increase in accuracythough there are some wonderfully accurate slug guns out therebut the trajectory of those cartridges are less than flat-shooting, and all are a bit on the heavy side. Usually, Id give the nod here to the .35 Rem., and theres no question it hits harder. Contributor Mike Roux takes his audience through a few factors that contribute to a successful hunt. The origins of the .35 Whelen are controversial even today. A 35 Rem or .358 Win would have been perfect for the situation. But theres a reason the .30-30 has been around for the last 126 years. So, which one comes out on top in a head-to-head matchup? The trouble is, they didnt sell. The .30-30 Winchester has the unique claim of being the first cartridge designed to run on both black powder and the revolutionary smokeless powder. At 400 yds., the .358 Norma impacts 3.1 inches lower than the .300 Win. lcw #12400267 11/15/17. Scoped and out to 350 yards the 308 has it hands down. and .351" JSP bullets. Personally, at the ranges that these cartridges are used, I could easily call it a draw. load of 17.0 grains of IMR 4227 for a MV of 1400 fps. From 100 yards it was tracked with 1861 foot-pounds of awesome power. Soon after, the classic 150- and 170-grain loads took root, and due to the tubular magazines of so many popular rifles, round nose bullets were employed. Mag..404 Jeffery vs. .416 Rigby.243 Winchester vs. 6mm Creedmoor.300 PRC vs. .300 Win. The range of bullet weights available (not to mention the diameter of each cartridge) put the .30-30 and .35 Rem. The .35 Remington was one of a quartet of cartridges released by Remington in 1906, and it was chambered for the Remington Model 8 autoloading rifle. Bottles & 12-oz. The Winchester 351 self-loading rifle is amazing, and unique enough to add true value to your gun colle. 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[ this is not a 35 Remington ] NO SALES to CALIFORINA OR ILLINIOS. The ammunition situation is a little better than the rifles. Sure, we experiment a bit with other bore sizes, but in the end it always comes back to the .30 caliber. In 2022, he was named as the brands Shooting Editor. I can certainly see the Midwest deer hunters making a switch to the 350 Legend over any of the .40 to .45 caliber cartridges, as the 350 Legend offers the Goldilocks just right formula: a good balance of striking power and ease of shooting. remember seeing it on Winchester's loading list when I was a teenager. in its NoslerCustom line with a 225-grain Partition bullet at 2550 f.p.s. Remington made great efforts to promote the power of the .35 Remington by featuring the cartridge, along with their revolutionary new semi-automatic rifle, in many advertisements during the first half of the 20th Century. Size in the Big Bore Model 94. At the time, .32 caliber cartridges were actually more popular than were the .30s, but it didnt take long for the .30-30 to establish itself as a perfect deer hunting cartridge. Not unlike the real estate market, the answer lies in location, location, location. If were being honest with ourselves, the majority of American hunters, especially in the south and northeast, will take only a handful of shots at big game at ranges past 100 yards in their lifetime. Winchester and Hornady both offer 200-grain loads at 2475 f.p.s. of energy at 200 yards, dropping 7.5 inches when using a 100-yard zero. solidly in the deer- and black bear-sized game camp. This could be the most frequently debated rifle cartridge matchup on the planet. When chambered for cartridges such as the .243 Win., 6 mm Rem., .308 Win. With the traditional loads, the .30-30 will drive its 150- and 170-grain bullets to a muzzle velocity of 2400 and 2250 fps respectively, while the .35 Remington launches its 180- and 200-grain bullets at 2100 and 2080 fps. Because of its ability to retain velocity, the 160-grain LEVERevolution .30/30 load is also the hardest hitting for that cartridge; at 100 yards it is carrying 1643 foot-pounds of energy. Anything about this rifle they must have not manufactured very many hunters tell me it is rare to see the cartridge in this caliber from a Remington model 600 I do like this rifle it is very accurate and fun to shoot. I shoot the 200 grain Hornady interlock factory loads in mine. FMJ bullet at 1,870 f.p.s. the standard .357"-.358" used by modern .35 caliber cartridges. The result was the .350 Legend. It has far more knockdown power than the .30-30 under any conditions at any range. Ill bet its been awhile since those cartridges have been seen in a hunting camp. The .35 Rem. We have V-MAX, Polymer Tip and Soft Point bullets for Hunting, Varmint and Small Game Hunting. Mag. Winchester is among the leaders in the entire ammunition industry in terms of high-volume production of both .223 Rem. Something to think about if you really want a .348 Winchester based cartridge. The .350 Rem. The .35SL proved popular at first with the general public as a short-range deer and black bear hunting cartridge, but was soon superseded by the introduction of the more powerful .351SL in the Winchester '07. The original .35 Remington loadgenerated over 1,900 foot pounds of energy and quickly became a favorite among American hunters. Thompson Center also manufactures their break action, single shot Contender pistol in .35 Remington for handgun hunters who love the cartridge. Re: 35 Remington vs. 358 Winchester. from a 20" and the 6.5 mm Rem. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. Hammer Women Of Distinction Award, Women's Wildlife Management / Conservation Scholarship, National Youth Shooting Sports Cooperative Program, Reloading Centerfire Ammunition: Tips For Getting Started, Shooting and Loading the 6.8x43 mm Rem. Whitetail hunting strategies for the next generation. If you were to vote for the .30-30 Winchester based on its higher Sectional Density valuesthe 170-grain .308 bullet has an S.D. During the spring conservation order, you can hunt with outfitters from Arkansas to Saskatchewan. can only be had in Federals traditional, lead-core Power-Shok line. Remington marketed the cartridgeas a superior alternative to another extremely popular cartridge that excelled under those same circumstances: the venerable .30-30 Winchester. check. Which of these two classic lever-action rifle deer and big-game cartridges is best? Articles may contain affiliate links which enable us to share in the revenue of any purchases made. Realistically, the maximum effective range for the .35 Remington for most shooters is 200 yards. That version is in some dispute, with evidence that Whelen himself developed the cartridge or at least worked with Howe on its development. As a result, the cartridge does not have a very flat trajectory. Mag. Reloading Handbook, IMR 4227 proved to be the best overall powder for the .351 WSL. But, there is an issue: It seems the .35 Remington ammunition has begun to fade away. We've got you covered..280 Ackley Improved vs. 7mm Rem. On the other hand, the 200-grain LEVERevolution .35 Remington load will drop 17 inches with the same 200-yard zero. Neither produce much felt recoil, which makes them perfect for lighter rifles and newer hunters. For comparison, a .270 Winchester produces about 17 ft.-lbs. A box of hunting ammunition will sell for $19 to $22. Well played Winchester; we all need to work together. It may not be high speed or low drag, but its got more than enough juice to get the job done. in 1957 and .351 ammunition was offered for several years after that. Hornadys LEVERevolution pushes the performance up a notch with a 200-grain pointed bullet at 2225 f.p.s. Americas Other Levergun by Glen E. Fryxell, The Great Model 8 & 81 by Richard Jones,Bullet Frontal Area List, by Chuck Hawks, andtheLyman 50th Edition(p309-310) andHornady 10th Edition(p682-683) reloading manuals were used as references for this article. At 100 yards it will hit with 1861 foot-pounds of energy. Takedown Model, . Now, in this comparison, I will freely admit that the .35 Remington is not legal for those areas for which the 350 Legend was designed, as the .35 Remington is a bottle-necked cartridge, but there has been quite a bit of rumbling among those hunters who appreciate the short to mid-range cartridges, about whether or not the switch to the new cartridge is worthwhile. Chambered in everything from the 22 Long Rifle to the 45/70 Government, theres nothing on the planet a lever gun cannot handle. Posts: 16,091. A failed product is often said to be ahead of its time, which is usually just a polite way of saying nobody wanted to buy it. The .35 Rem. is a wonderful cartridge, but nobody buys them. The maximum load is 19.5 So, in recognition of both the strengths and weaknesses of the cartridge, the .35 Remington gained a good reputation among American huntersseeking an effective woods cartridge for pursuing game in areas where shots inside 100 yards were the norm. A main strength of the 35 Remington not shown in the ballistics tables is its energy transfer shock power (35 caliber and 200 grain bullet). The sad truth is that the active list of current .35-caliber rifles and cartridges is tragically short. If zeroed at 200 yards, their 160-grain FTX .30/30 Winchester load will drop 12 inches at 300 yards. .30-30 Win. Accuracy was always regarded as fair at best from Model 07 carbines. Slightly less recoil and quite a bit less cash gives the shootability category to the .30-30 Win. Join me for a look at another great investment rifle. Join F&S+ to read exclusive stories by your favorite writers. Cartridge overall length is 1.90". Today, most major manufacturers offer multiple actions chambered in .30-30. While the .35 Remington was extremely popular when first introduced in the early 1900s, the cartridge has fallen out of mainstream use in recent years. loaded with a 180-grain Oryx bullet to the .358 Norma Mag. Versatility vs. .35 Rem. These seemingly small differences added up to a significant difference in power and effectiveness on game between the two cartridges. Developed in the days before ballistic coefficient was a talking point at gun counters, these cartridges tend to use wide, stubby bullets that cant maintain velocity at extended ranges. Mag. Ruger briefly chambered the M77 rifle in .35 Whelen. can drive the same weight bullet a bit faster. The .35 Remington uses the 180- and 200-grain .358caliber bullets, and while light-for-caliber, they are effective at the ranges a .35 Remington is used, which is usually inside of 150 yards. I've been told that Winchester will soon produce full-metal-jacket (FMJ) ammunition for the .350 Legend, and that the FMJ load will cost even less per box. It was not designed for a lever-action rifle. Sadly, my favorite bullet diameter, the .35 caliber, doesnt even rate a blip on the American shooters radar screen. 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