To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. how do I get one for my P320? The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . I have no idea. The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. Really, that JJA ship looks like something the folks at PlaySkool built, its terrible. The problem was strikers. Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. I dunno if its a case of lowest bidders blues or what. SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. Look a fanboy. Whether or not the suits have merit. Who function tests their firearm 1) with a round in the chamber, and 2) when its pointed at an extremity? 00:03. The use of a modified [SIG] P226 holster created an unsafe condition by allowing a foreign object to enter the holster, causing the unintended discharge.. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. Sig P320 is just one of many pistols with Safety related. You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. Fine. No picture for me. No Warp core, just a quantum singularity, The engine was basically a dorm fridge. P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program | SIG SAUER https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-iN4Wr8P_P2lGU6m2M5Rd8F6tVxyeeWdzleA_0eUoKjB0wER5wbVU_ouLj3uKCvLmUWhjIv2uHVC2R0Wv8Q9VgQ/messages/@.id==AMxkWSMoHX4bYSzMKA0AINojDH4/content/parts/@.id==2/refresh?appid=YMailNorrinLaunch&ymreqid=ae6c4f7d-acdd-ffa3-1c80-d70000011c00. Sig Sauer to Settle Lawsuit Over Alleged Safety Glitch in P320 Pistol Remember the stupidity of the far right is infinite and the blind greed of the gun makers prove they could not care less about human life and suffering. OR some gorilla with more brawn than brains ignored the 40lb trigger pull they suddenly had to break the tab. DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. Then when the gun still wouldnt operate right, field stripped it and cleared the debris, but didnt understand the gun enough to realize it was now super broken. That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. I think in the end even if there is no mechanical defect (dont hold your breath) it will be found that the Sig is causing accidental discharges for the same reason the Glock does, because if you snag the trigger on the Sig model that does not have a manual safety (some do) the gun will accidentally fire. Search Texas Statutes. Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. (unless theyre SWAT or something). SIG P320s were just the start and the P365 isnt far behind. No autographs, No self taken pictures. One, the energy necessary to lift the striker-securing safety plunger may be insufficient due to a too-weak spring, or a too-light plunger, or some other design flaw, to reliably engage the plunger where it belongs. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. Bagnells and other lawsuits ABC claims at least 54 discharges and 10 suits against SIG describe instances of P320s going off dating back to 2016, prior to the upgrade. I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. U.S. lawsuits After the accident the unit returned to using the SIG P226 they had planned to replace with the P320. It was one of the first ones and was sent back as a voluntary upgrade. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. But as Officer Hilton says, There is no way anything could have gotten into my purseinto the trigger guard and pulled that trigger., This ABC report includes an interview with Joshua Harrison, a firearms expert hired by the network to examine the P320s design and give his opinion of its safety. brakes, remember? My dad owned one and that is exactly what happened one time when he was using it. I can say one thing for sure, the X on the side of the my is about is welcoming to me as grip zone was. And they would not have done that for no reason at all. Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging My elderly aunt drove her Volvo into a parked car, and the yard behind it, and the house behind that, while she was pressing the brake as hard as she could. Strangely the car kept accelerating, almost as if she were flooring the gas pedal. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. As for the Serpa holster, this is a bunch of internet echo chamber BS that originated with Obama-era federal agencies putting a bad light on a good product in order to sway public opinion and thus damage the manufacturers bottom line. One of the officers a few years ago was carrying his P320 in a P226 holster that he took a Dremel to make the P320 fit. I continue to bet my life on them. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. Texas Penal Code - PENAL 42.12 | FindLaw Seems a bit apologetic to me. Dont quote the four rules of safety in your article when all the hotness in the gun world is appendix carry pointing something at an extremity and the photos you use showing front slide serrationsputting your hands fingers near the business end of the barrel, because press checks from the front is the way all the cool operator guys do it. Guess it hasnt dawned on them that: 1. The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. The suit mirrors lawsuits filed across the country involving the semi-automatic gun known as the P320. Especially since they farm it out to the lowest bidder. When he opened the drawer the hinges pulled the Charters trigger. It sure wasnt her fault though, because she was flooring the. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. CBC News reached out to Sig Sauer and its Canadian distributor, M.D. Misfires and Lawsuits Plague Sig Sauer P320 I have never had to have one serviced or replaced. Sounds like these officers and others are attempting to cover their posteriors. The design was incorporated from Bruce Grays trigger kit around the time of the original drop safety fix. Trust a P365 with your life. Another p320 "accidental discharge" - The Armory Life Forum A lot like carrying a cocked and locked 1911 but with the safety off. Again the Far Right Stupidity and hypocrisy is infinite. I also have a manual safety. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. He is acting as a consultant in the Collette suit that was filed last week. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. The main difference is that the M&P never had the problem the p320 did with trigger mass. Sig makes a damn fine weapon and theres nothing wrong with it. And those are exactly the kinds of plaintiffs who happen to make up the vast majority of the lawsuits filed against SIG. The Glock fails on both counts. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. Likewise, having a finger in the trigger-guard, or a clothing draw-string, or a retention strap, or some other object, when holstering the gun exonerates the maker, as the gun is firing with a trigger press of sufficient energy and stroke as designed. This guy had been working at the LGS for over a decade and never had an AD or ND, he was the strictest when it came to safety. The problems associate with those pistols (and the P365) have long since been ironed out. MPD guns fired on their own twice in 6 months - WISN The thing I hate is getting kicked around! Unlawful Discharge of a Firearm: Texas Laws - The Law Office of Greg The sear cams it back a teeny bit. Note the addition of ominous background music in the second seven-minutes-longer version (there was no music in the Good Morning America version). That focus drifts. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. Have you ever put a handgun down with your palm in front of the muzzle? The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. Not much detail is provided in any of those other claimed incidents, but a few stand out. Not sure why it wont let me reply to you, but Ill reply to myself in the hope youll get it. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. The Moron engineer who decided to put that on the Glock should have been hung by his dirty balls. The Defiant regardless of who is the captain. I think making guns easy to shoot has gone too far. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. Much has been made of Nimoys Spock being the most popular character in TOS, but Id argue that without Shatners over-the-top swagger and brash manner, the balance would be lost. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. A fellow kept his DA revolver in the desk. Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. All those customers who paid $1600 now had a limited function paper weight. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. At this point I would have to say that Taurus is a better handgun. LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. Everyone remember the video of the DEA agent shooting himself while explaining that he was highly qualified to carry a gun? Miraculously, no one was hit by the bullet, which ricocheted around inside the vehicle. Using an example from the first prong, we legitimately fault the user who shot himself in the palm, rightfully asking why in the WORLD his palm was in front of the muzzle when he set the gun down. Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. Google Keith Slatowski, is he lying also? Just 3 days ago, a Florida Corrections recruit killed herself by a negligent discharge during firearms training. The incidents occur outside the forbidden zone, as we disarm before we enter so we stay in assiduous compliance with their nonsensical requirement. The SIG P320, which has been manufactured since 2014, is known to go off without the trigger being pulled if it's dropped and lands on the ground at a certain angle. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. A plastic gun that has a tendency to go off by itself. So I give a ton of credit to Shatner for reading the reality of what it was and in essence, saving it. I just separate Shatner the man from Kirk the character, which he plays with Shakespearian operatic perfection. Maybe in South America a poor military did, but thatd be about it. Id read that for TMP, they got NASA to help in the design of the refit Enterprise. The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. Now when you lose your grip on lawn mowers or snow blowers they will not keep travelling foreword all by themselves. . Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. Does the P365 have a similar reputation for spontaneous - SIG Talk Its difficult to believe thats a coincidence. You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. So are dumb(or arrogant) cops. That a shirt tail or jacket cinch cord slips into a holster. Weird how that might happen. By hoping Sig gets taken down for the P320, theyre actually setting up their own pet brand to be the next on the chopping block. But breaking news here, skippy. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. Cars have so many electronics these days, who knows what could have gone wrong! Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. Canadas highly-trained counterterrorism force, JTF-2, is the only military unit with the SIG P320 in its inventory right now. BAM. RKC, the first time someone presented me with a 1911 whose trigger rivaled my Pythons single action, I started wondering about that. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. Before the madness SIGS were expensive. Sig Sauer P320 (Christine Peterson/TNS) February 22, 2021 Ryan Morgan Gunmaker Sig Sauer is facing a new lawsuit from a U.S. federal agent who claims his holstered P320 pistol discharged without him pulling the trigger and struck him in his upper right hip. Its just that with hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of more than one-third of the countrys population including a lot of cops some number of negligent discharges will inevitably happen. These officers are not gunfighters. https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan They simply have never been seen in the upper echelon of handgun makers, their entire business model is to offer cheaper guns at cheaper prices. You need a lead that can be the lightening rod and not be afraid to make an ass of themselvesit give the watcher permission to take it seriously. Liberal, Conservative. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. The best take on this subject is by the author himself: this is about slime lawyers looking to build a national narrative and get a few wins in, so they can more easily get the next win and the next one, the next one and so on. Hey, Im glad theres somethings we agree on! Again, these are examples the plaintiff in this case is using to support his claim that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. What exactly did Harrison mean by legal momentum? That isnt clear, but its easy to make an educated guess. On the other hand, would we also condemn him for violating Rule 2 if the bullet had travelled through his outside wall, entered the adjacent house, and killed a resident thereof, or would we maybe, just maybe, place some blame on the manufacturer who created the pistol? Marine vet ICE agent sues Sig Sauer for $10M claiming pistol shot him Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. At the risk of sounding superstitious lets review Sigs latest turd pistol. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. Why are Milwaukee police Sig Sauer guns accidentally going off? Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. Yaaay! Thats why NY demanded the NY Trigger be installed on Glocks before theyd buy them. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/. TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. They mandate more discharges, with more property damage, more injuries, and more deaths. There used to be a problem, which is why Sig fixed it. Sig P320 Accidental Discharge 2021 Perhaps nothing speaks more clearly to the need for a total recall than the fact that in 2021, over four years after Sig Sauer offered its voluntary upgrade, people are still suffering injuries and lawsuits continue to be filed. And then theres Gunter Walker, a civilian, who says his P320 fired on its ownwhen he placed the weapon down on his nightstand, shooting him through the palm of his left hand.. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. Sig Sauer P220 Super Match. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question. Yesterday, a Canadian news outlet, CBC News, published a story regarding the unintended discharge last year of a SIG P320 by a Canadian Special Operator, resulting in injury and his unit withdrawing the pistol from service. Either one could have been a gun or a Barbie. Later when he was driving he shifted his weight and this caused the trigger to be pushed back further and it went off and shot him and the bullet then also blew a big hole in the floor board of this truck. While this incident occurred months ago, this erroneous media report is driven by multiple sources, including our competitors, and coincides with the imminent release of other Canadian military and law enforcement tenders, indicating the timing of its release is an attempt to improperly influence the procurements, the statement said. Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. Bagnell told TTAG that he believes the problem with the striker-fired P320 is an inadequate sear/striker connection (he has images he says illustrate this on his website). When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. Canadian soldier wounded by accidental discharge used wrong holster: SIG Sauer Picard if Im limited to NCC-1701. As for Seals they have their own contract with Glock but can carry anything they want. The heads up testing was immediately finished the Sig was the winner. It has been flawless so far. These cops seem pretty dang stupid if they put loaded guns in gym bags and purses with other stuff and carry them around, especially a gun that lacks manual safeties. As they should. 2. He had to be reprimanded by the range officer twice for unsafe handling of his pistol. As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. All polymer guns are cheap, cheap, cheap to make, thats why I threw the Taurus name into the mix. Have heard of no issues like the alleged gremlin caused spontaneous discharges of the P320 in other Sig models. But I hope Sig fights it until the bitterest of ends. If these same folks were around in the 80s and got their way, no one today would know what a Glock was. Quit blaming cops or the military, these guns have a serious problem. Aint been nothing but problems since the military dropped the 1911, what was it 85 year of trusted service? The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. All chasing that pot of gold at the end of litigation.. Not that big of a stretch when considering the lawyers beating the bushs for clients to add to the lawsuits, and the fact many of them will lose their jobs if its proven to NOT be the gun, but instead negligence on their part. But just the same- a gun going off from momentum? If it were a lowered tier manufacturer like a Taurus having allegations made against them, people would run with it without thinking twice. Training and experience are not a talisman that magically prevents accidents. The cost of settlements will be passed on to us. Special Forces pulls new pistols from service after soldier - CBC Ron, The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. To put it simply, they are expensive cheaply made junk. I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. 3) If the sear fails, there is the drop safety in the way of the striker. P320 X Compact is it safe CCW | SIG Talk Zero in the affirmative. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. That is the point of most of the video at the end of the article. But now, P320 is the subject. https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/. Sig fanboys are almost as bad as Glock fanboys. Which in and of itself is user error / misuse. Sig P320 discharge while holstered | Sniper's Hide Forum Sig, take this firearm off the market, and recall. That could happen easily. 2) The p320 does have a half cocked notch. (It wasnt my gun). Big public relations disaster and Sig tries a second time to get the piece of shit to work and not go off when dropped. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. On February 19, 2021, Military.com reported: A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 a pistol that the Army's new sidearm is based on accidentally discharged, firing a 9mm bullet into his right leg. It offers the quality and reliability of Sig Sauer, with a tried and true striker system and ingenious features that make it a novel gun. Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). Sound familiar? So even if, as the ambulance chaser claims, the striker leg could vibrate off of the sear face, it could not discharge unless the drop safety was also disengaged because the drop safety prevents movement of the striker sufficient to make the firing pin protrude from the breech face. In this version, Bridge City Officer Brittany Hilton tells her story of what she says happened when her P320 discharged as she was carrying it in her purse in what appears to be a SERPA holster (which has had its own problems, but thats another story). I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. Trigger is lighter than the Glock, it took years of aggressive training to reach the point of acceptable discharges with the Glock. I dont own a P320. Harrison stated that, I have not seen enough to convince me that the upgraded version is dangerous., When ABCs David Scott asked Harrison if its a mystery whats going wrong with the updated version though Harrison had just stated the upgraded pistol isnt dangerous Harrison said, I do not have an explanation for why the updated version should have complaints from trained individuals. Happy with my old S&W revolvers, 3rd Gen S&W pistols,1911s and a slew of P226s. ABC News ran two reports on the topic last week, highlighting one particular cop in Bridge City, Texas who is suing SIG for $15 million. It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. Personally they should have gone with the Glock, its not for me but is a proven gun. Its just dumb enough to sound like the plot to a damned Disney film. This reminds me of when Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News for sexual harassment and she got 20 million dollars. Hes like the arrogant star QB on your favorite football teamyeah, you would never want to spend a weekend with him at the lake cabin, but your franchise would be little to nothing without him. Anyway my question for $600 would be: Did you have your 3rd wife killed? Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. . Third, Glock has had problems, too. These lawsuits ARE about SIG making defective weapons. I have been purchasing and using Sig firearms exclusively for over 40 years. Kyle . Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. Fact is most SF carry what they want and the Marine Recon I know very well who has friends in that community told me many in the Navy NSW program still carry the Mk 25, they don want a striker fired pistol that can hydrolock in water. Did a Sig Sauer P320 Fire On Its Own? A Police Officer - 19FortyFive It isnt the beginner woodworker who loses fingers. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. Having it as the ONLY trigger pull the weapon has seems (to me) clearly dangerous. That being the case, the 320 is a cocked and locked striker-fired gun; However, it only has two safeties, unlike, say, a 1911, which has four: An inertial firing pin, a positive firing-pin locking safety, a manual sear-locking/blocking safety, and a trigger-bar-blocking grip safety.

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